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Casual Veteran Gamer
United Kingdom
Приєднався 17 лип 2020
Hello and welcome to Casual Veteran Gamer. In the description today, I am going to inform you that I mainly focus on Baldur's Gate 3 at the moment, which has given me plenty of content to create videos about. My videos are aimed at trying to bring lesser known mechanics, tactics and character builds to my audience. My livestreams are also aimed at providing a commentary on why I'm taking certain decisions, with the hope that you find it informative.
I upload several times a week, including live streams, should you want to watch in a more interactive way. A subscription is always appreciated and comments welcomed.
I upload several times a week, including live streams, should you want to watch in a more interactive way. A subscription is always appreciated and comments welcomed.
Rogue Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
#baldursgate3 #bg3 #rogue
My Twitch Channel: www.twitch.tv/casualveterangamer
To share a save file: bg3tome.com/
Link to memberships: ua-cam.com/channels/Yei6jVKMLboVSs7gEmxFmA.htmljoin
Link to discord server: discord.gg/EwGEybVtRM
BG3 Wiki: bg3.wiki/wiki/Main_Page
This is my casual opinion on the Rogue Subclasses in Baldur's Gate 3 and how I rank/rate them. This is not a definitive ranking, but hopefully you will learn something about Rogues in this Baldur's Gate 3 in this video!
00:00 Intro
00:30 3rd Place
05:21 2nd Place
07:53 1st Place
Let me know what you think of each Rogue Subclass in Baldur's Gate 3 and how many rankings you agree or disagree with.
I have also done a walkthrough/gameplay of the original dungeon keeper also:
ua-cam.com/play/PLTC79-E1U7HgChp0bod8tBgv1X8lTjnQs.html
My Twitch Channel: www.twitch.tv/casualveterangamer
To share a save file: bg3tome.com/
Link to memberships: ua-cam.com/channels/Yei6jVKMLboVSs7gEmxFmA.htmljoin
Link to discord server: discord.gg/EwGEybVtRM
BG3 Wiki: bg3.wiki/wiki/Main_Page
This is my casual opinion on the Rogue Subclasses in Baldur's Gate 3 and how I rank/rate them. This is not a definitive ranking, but hopefully you will learn something about Rogues in this Baldur's Gate 3 in this video!
00:00 Intro
00:30 3rd Place
05:21 2nd Place
07:53 1st Place
Let me know what you think of each Rogue Subclass in Baldur's Gate 3 and how many rankings you agree or disagree with.
I have also done a walkthrough/gameplay of the original dungeon keeper also:
ua-cam.com/play/PLTC79-E1U7HgChp0bod8tBgv1X8lTjnQs.html
Переглядів: 1 185
Відео
Ranger Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Переглядів 1,6 тис.День тому
#baldursgate3 #bg3 #ranger My Twitch Channel: www.twitch.tv/casualveterangamer To share a save file: bg3tome.com/ Link to memberships: ua-cam.com/channels/Yei6jVKMLboVSs7gEmxFmA.htmljoin Link to discord server: discord.gg/EwGEybVtRM BG3 Wiki: bg3.wiki/wiki/Main_Page This is my casual opinion on the Ranger Subclasses in Baldur's Gate 3 and how I rank/rate them. This is not a definitive ranking, ...
Paladin Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Переглядів 1,4 тис.День тому
#baldursgate3 #bg3 #paladin My Twitch Channel: www.twitch.tv/casualveterangamer To share a save file: bg3tome.com/ Link to memberships: ua-cam.com/channels/Yei6jVKMLboVSs7gEmxFmA.htmljoin Link to discord server: discord.gg/EwGEybVtRM BG3 Wiki: bg3.wiki/wiki/Main_Page This is my casual opinion on the Paladin Subclasses/Oaths in Baldur's Gate 3 and how I rank/rate them. This is not a definitive r...
Monk Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Переглядів 1,7 тис.21 день тому
#baldursgate3 #bg3 #monk My Twitch Channel: www.twitch.tv/casualveterangamer To share a save file: bg3tome.com/ Link to memberships: ua-cam.com/channels/Yei6jVKMLboVSs7gEmxFmA.htmljoin Link to discord server: discord.gg/EwGEybVtRM BG3 Wiki: bg3.wiki/wiki/Main_Page This is my casual opinion on the Monk Subclasses in Baldur's Gate 3 and how I rank/rate them. This is not a definitive ranking, but ...
Druid Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Переглядів 1,6 тис.Місяць тому
#baldursgate3 #bg3 #druid My Twitch Channel: www.twitch.tv/casualveterangamer To share a save file: bg3tome.com/ Link to memberships: ua-cam.com/channels/Yei6jVKMLboVSs7gEmxFmA.htmljoin Link to discord server: discord.gg/EwGEybVtRM BG3 Wiki: bg3.wiki/wiki/Main_Page This is my casual opinion on the Druid Subclasses in Baldur's Gate 3 and how I rank/rate them. This is not a definitive ranking, bu...
Bard Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Переглядів 2,4 тис.Місяць тому
Bard Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Barbarian Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Переглядів 1,7 тис.Місяць тому
Barbarian Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
The Story Of How I Defeated A Glitched Orin in Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
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The Story Of How I Defeated A Glitched Orin in Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Fighter Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 (bg3 Patch 6)
Переглядів 2,9 тис.Місяць тому
Fighter Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 (bg3 Patch 6)
Rogue/Wizard Build For Baldur's Gate 3 Inspired By Imoen From The Original Baldur's Gate Games
Переглядів 3,5 тис.2 місяці тому
Rogue/Wizard Build For Baldur's Gate 3 Inspired By Imoen From The Original Baldur's Gate Games
2d6 vs. 1d12 Weapon Damage in Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Переглядів 6 тис.2 місяці тому
2d6 vs. 1d12 Weapon Damage in Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Cleric Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Переглядів 4 тис.2 місяці тому
Cleric Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6
Near Maximised Multiclassed Healing Build in Baldur's Gate 3
Переглядів 7 тис.3 місяці тому
Near Maximised Multiclassed Healing Build in Baldur's Gate 3
Fighter/Paladin Build Inspired by Mazzy from Baldur's Gate 2
Переглядів 1,7 тис.3 місяці тому
Fighter/Paladin Build Inspired by Mazzy from Baldur's Gate 2
Why Pure Rogues Struggle In Combat and One Build To Try in Baldur's Gate 3
Переглядів 6 тис.3 місяці тому
Why Pure Rogues Struggle In Combat and One Build To Try in Baldur's Gate 3
Anomen Inspired Fighter Cleric Build For Baldur's Gate 3
Переглядів 2,7 тис.3 місяці тому
Anomen Inspired Fighter Cleric Build For Baldur's Gate 3
Easy To Use Dual Wielding Build Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Переглядів 6 тис.4 місяці тому
Easy To Use Dual Wielding Build Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Halsin Build From A Viewer Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Переглядів 1,3 тис.4 місяці тому
Halsin Build From A Viewer Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Weapon Action Tierlist Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Переглядів 6 тис.4 місяці тому
Weapon Action Tierlist Baldur's Gate 3 Patch 6
Shambling Mound Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Patch 6 Baldur's Gate 3
Переглядів 3,3 тис.4 місяці тому
Shambling Mound Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Patch 6 Baldur's Gate 3
Kar'niss Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Patch 6 Baldur's Gate 3
Переглядів 2,6 тис.4 місяці тому
Kar'niss Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Patch 6 Baldur's Gate 3
Dror Ragzlin Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Patch 6 Baldur's Gate 3
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Dror Ragzlin Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Patch 6 Baldur's Gate 3
How to Start The Grove Defence in Act 1 of Baldur's Gate 3
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How to Start The Grove Defence in Act 1 of Baldur's Gate 3
[Patch 5] Act 3 Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Baldur's Gate 3
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[Patch 5] Act 3 Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Baldur's Gate 3
[Patch 5] Act 2 Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Baldur's Gate 3
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[Patch 5] Act 2 Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Baldur's Gate 3
My Second Honour Mode Party and Demonstration Against Ansur Baldur's Gate 3
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My Second Honour Mode Party and Demonstration Against Ansur Baldur's Gate 3
[Patch 5] Act 1 Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Baldur's Gate 3
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[Patch 5] Act 1 Legendary Action and Boss Guide for Honour Mode Baldur's Gate 3
Skills Tierlist for Baldur's Gate 3
Переглядів 9 тис.6 місяців тому
Skills Tierlist for Baldur's Gate 3
Honour Mode Thoughts and (Mostly) Tips For Baldur's Gate 3
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Honour Mode Thoughts and (Mostly) Tips For Baldur's Gate 3
oh man, no save after two trials. been there as well
Thankfully the trials are pretty quick if you know how they work!
Glad your oath didn't break during the Moonrise towers clean up operation! I would have felt somewhat bad for talking nonsense had it done so! 😆
Thanks for letting me know about it in the first place, there's now way I would have tried it without your input. Even if it hadn't worked out then it would have been a learning opportunity anyway.
Bro could you just tell us what you think we should take at lv2 lv3...
make a deugar then can enlarge self. Also dwarf thrower :D
My first ever playtrough was Rogue. Pure rogue. And it was fun in Act 1. In Act 2 I started having problems and having to reload quite a bit. Act 3 was the place where I stopped. My rogue just kept getting pomeled over and over again. And it wasn't fun. My advice would be to avoid rogue for first playtrough. If you don't multiclass (I didin't, mainly because I didin't knew how to) it becomes so booring after a while. You attack, move away, hide, end your turn. That's pretty much most of the rogues turns. I still haven't finished that playtrough just because I missed to many side quests and my rogue is just so weak. On the other hand for my second playtrough I'm playing as sorc. And it's just so amazing compared to rogue! Ofc now I know what I'm doing to begin with so that plays a big part on the fun factor, but still it is way more fun then rogue IMO.
Thank you so much for these videos, they are honestly the most useful out all that i've seen! They helped me so much in a lot of these fights.
Thank you for the kind comment and I'm happy to have been helpful for you.
Best Multiclass class.
thief feels like the most consistent of the subclasses, but assassin is the most powerful in the earlier levels. if i insist on monoclassing rogue (which i only do for challenge purposes) i start out as an assassin and switch to thief as soon as I can get hold of the gloves of balanced hands so i can have up to three decent attacks per turn
The only thing that really stands out about way of the four elements is the spells * CAN * be cast while raging as a barbarian. Still though finding the right split and time to cast spells vs initiate a rage is a difficult task as well
Arcane Trickster is an S-tier subclass for pickpocketing.
With all my many play throughs, I almost always multiclass Astarion (except for my very first full run of the game - kept everyone with their default classes and subclasses where applicable). However, on my newest run, I have decided to mono-class Astarion again (Thief Rogue), and take advantage of the extra feat. Setting him up for duel wielder and medium armor. This run isn't about using the best build, but more just doing something I haven't done in a long while. As always, thank you for the content! :)
4 feats is one of the biggest benefits of pure rogues in my opinion, which can allow us to try some different things. Dual wielding is one way to take advantage of the extra bonus action so I imagine it worked out alright!
If you wanna be a gish rogue it will be better to just mix it with swords bard, you get a lot more spells and the extra attack/flourishes will really bump up your damage. And you get an extra expertise and dialogue as well
Yeah, there's little that rogues can offer that a swords bard cannot. Then again, swords bards are probably one of the strongest subclasses in the game anyway.
@@CasualVeteranGamer 9 swords bard 3 thief rogue could have some insane cc with the band of the mystic scoundrel, you could attack 4 times then cast 2 cc spells on your bonus action, with them boosted by arcane acuity as well. While a pure arcane trickster would do 1 attack and 1 weak 2nd level spell in a turn..
ahh yes the red headed step child of classes
After I was able to potent dice my fireball to one shot a group of Minthara's ogre and goblin at the grove, Divination is the only school I pick for a wizard in any playthrough.
Totally agree with your assessment. I love to take 3 (or 4 for the feat) levels in Thief for the additional bonus action especially for Barbarian Bezerker and Monk who can effectively use the bonus action in combat.
It's a shame that rogues are such a great 3/4 level dip, but on the whole don't offer as much as most other classes when monoclassed.
Arcane trickster has always bugged me in both 5e and in BG3 for the same two reasons really, though 5e a bit less so. For one, although spells can also be very defensive or highly damaging, the the Arcane Trickster restrictions forcing them to be focused on low level, utility spells prevent them from taking advantage of this really. Then on top of that, giving the highest utility martial class access to a few spells only for utility is...well, redundant. The one thing Arcane Trickster gets in 5e that it doesn't in bg3 is the ability to use certain magical items and magical scrolls that they otherwise wouldn't be able to use. Is that worth a whole subclass though?
I can see your point there. Also if we're using spells that cost an action it means that can't even get sneak attack, unless we use a hand crossbow with a bonus action I guess? I figure their niche in bg3 is scroll casting after level 9, but the thing is arcane acuity builds don't even need to give enemies disadvantage for their spells to land.
heavy armor on a ranger? yuck
I love your rating system overall, but I feel like maybe it does land Druids a bit dirty! Their big drawcard is the extra circle spells and unfortunately that’s only contributing to one criteria. The other abilities are really just intended to be supplementary to those spells. Contrast that with moon Druids, who have their various wild shapes contributing to several criteria. Druid subclasses I think are really tough to rate because their features are geared towards different playstyles. It makes for a very subjective ranking! I would personally go moon>land>spores because I’m not as interested in a summoning class (and that knee slapping animation is so lame 😂) but that’s purely preference
I must admit that I find it difficult to find a good system, and in light of that I've tried to stick to the same system with each class rather than have it change each video! I also like the fact that land druids get those extra spells known. I would also admit that as much as I am trying to give numerical values to each subclass, at the end of the day all of these videos will include my own subjective opinions. I hadn't though too much about it before, but now that you've mentioned the knee slapping animation I do find it a bit funny!
1 detail you missed about beastmaster is that you can feed elixirs to your pets...strength, colossus, you name it (dire raven scale of dex tho) and that early game (even late game I guess) is HUGE.
Thanks for mentioning that as it's not something I've often done!
Feels like Hunter is only good for Minsc since you get him later on in act 3 where you can use the volley. For a tav there are better archery builds like the swords bard, the gloomstalker or even straight fighter
The best way to play a Hunter is to play as something better for levels 1-10, then respec at level 11.
I might have missed it, but I don’t think you mentioned that Gloom Stalker gets the misty step and fear spells for free. While might not change the rankings they are both great spells
Yeah, that came under the "other bonuses" section of the rating. Nice spells for sure, especially misty step, but not exactly build defining either!
@@CasualVeteranGamer lol I should have watched a bit further into the Beast Master section!
Well, it wasn't helpful that I talked about it in the wrong part of the video, sorry!
Tiger Heart on a run where you gained BOOALS benediction can be insane, spreading bleeding heavily and gaining advantage on all those affected
Eldritch knight will always be better than battlemaster to me for one reason. Movement. If battlemaster has even one turn of not hitting then a EK will out damage it massively. EK will never have to waste turns not attacking because of all its movement spells let alone the defensive kit. Even if you account for items the EK or gish items are so strong yes you can put misty step on a BM with the boots but there are much better boots that a EK can use. Both are still hyper strong classes tho
besides 11 lvl any hunter or beastmaster is useless, but you can't pick action surge which is necessary for any attacker, in the end there are no options other than 3/5 gloomstalker, sad but true
With the Beast Master, you can make a good face character with high charisma and even a few useful skills. You could be something like a gnome, but since you are kind of tiny and maybe not so good in combat, nature has sent you some protectors. It is possible to get decent charisma, constitution, and dexterity, along with a bit of wisdom. The Gloves of Dexterity exist, along with other stat items. Plus, you can make the animal companions drink potions, which is, frankly, in my opinion, overpowered. Bearoids.
Although it's not perhaps nature loving, I do like the idea that we can create a bear, or raven for that matter, on steroids!
That spin to win plus a weapon that heals on hit is so very good though :)
That's a good weapon to use for sure!
I have always enjoyed the beast master. All of the utilty you get is so useful.
Loved hunter ranger since I did a playthrough as one, but it definitely doesn't get great until level 11 which is the downside, as you said. The other 2 subclasses are good too, but hunter really grew on me. Great vid! Love hearing your opinion on these things.
Thanks! The hunter ranger was always my favourite during early access, but it's a shame that there are a fair few levels of not receiving very much.
I never level the hunter; I just respec into it at 11. The Volley attack does not affect friendlies so it's like an Evocation Wizard and it is amazing with items like the Snow Burst Ring and other Condition provoking items. Lol I had no idea that you could stack your Beastmaster summons!! Wow, with Hero's Feast and Aid and . . . amazing! Also, Beastmaster with the Eversight Ring and huge fields of Raven darkness is awesome!
I think that's the best way to play a hunter ranger sadly, just respec into it at level 11! Of course, the downside to stacking those few beastmaster summons is that we use up short rests very quickly, however the clever use of a few hireling bards can overcome that if needed/wanted.
Great video, as always. One thing I'd like clarified, though. Are we rating all these classes, subclasses and specific abilities based on how they perform in a blind first playthrough, or in an optimized playthrough where you pretty much already know what to expect? Because there's a huge difference.
These ratings aren't exactly made for either of those. I haven't taken feats and items into account for the most part, although I have mentioned some of the strongest combinations such as tavern brawler, hat of arcane acuity, and the band of mystic scoundrel for a few of the classes. This is because a few items/feats would dominate most of these videos, and I don't want to assume that everyone will always be using particular items/feats. I'd also argue that some of these videos do rely on people know which are generally the stronger and weaker spells though, as several subclasses get different spells. I know that isn't a clear and simple answer, but the hope is to inform everyone of the abilities the subclasses get within each class.
@@CasualVeteranGamer Understandable. thanks for the well thought our answer. I wasn't referring to items either, that would make these ratings a whole different thing, just base subclass viability. Just how the base subclass with, say, only enchanted weapons and armor, would fare on a blind run, versus a run where you know the encounters.
I would say that my bias would make it so that these are made with knowledge of what encounters are in the game. There are times in some videos where I mention say, immunity to being charmed, and how there are so few times where we are actually charmed that it's not a good ability to have.
Hunter ranger is not bad with one level of a war cleric, because of war priest charges, but it'll be such a late multi class
It's a great multiclass for sure, probably the strongest for the hunter.
1 advantage of Vengeance is that it's easy to keep and less restrictive compared to Ancients/Devotion that require you to be a mostly good character. As for oathbreaker it has the very annoying thing where you need to retake your oath before you respec then go and break it again
I dislike not being able to respec as an oathbreaker. I'm sure it's done so that we can't get our previous oath back for 100 gold, but nevertheless it's still a bit annoying!
You always make this game look really easy lol. I just started a new game after a few months away. You give me new ideas for different scenarios. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for your kind words and I'm happy that you've been able to get some inspiration!
*Note* This seems to be a bug or exploit and might be fixed later on. Gale is the perfect camp caster, making him a life cleric and using that spell list (including warding bond) makes your party extremely difficult to kill. You can even give him the ritual caster feat and take longstrider/enhance leap if you want. And you don't even have to rest to restore his spell slots here's how: Step 1: Select Gale, and cast all of your desired buffs on your party members (at least one needs warding bond cast on them). Then remove Gale from your party. Step 2: Punch (or otherwise damage) the party member who you cast warding bond on - This will cause Gale, while out of your party, to take damage BUT he heals back to full AND restores all spell slots (up to level 5) Repeat as many times as needed to super buff your entire party.
In the fight against Oran, in many videos I see that the victim is Yenna, in my first game, second in strategist and now in honor mode recently, he always captures Lae'zel How does that happen?
I see your video and your characters have many characteristics next to the image Hopefully in my game you only see the ritual of talking to animals how do you do that? How do you get so many features? potions, or choices that give you a buff in the game? and that you take half the life of a demon with an arrow, my god
One problem with oath breaker that justifies its lower ranking is that no undead you summon have MELEE weapons, and aura of hate only works on fiends and undead MELEE weapon attacks. Pretty much means the only summon that benefits from this is the Cambion…
Ah yes, that's true, I didn't realise the melee weapons part when I made the video. I suppose if an oathbreaker controlled an undead with a melee weapon then it would also work, but I doubt that will happen very often!
Rating fire bolt as good as eldritch blast and guidance is absolutely diabolical ray of frost and bone chill both have amazing secondary effects and you’re sacrificing 3 average damage at level 10 which is… just who cares? Also they apply conditions meaning they work with items like the boots of stormy clamour, ironically making them better for damage.
Diabolical, there's a good word! Yeah, you're not the first person to mention that, and I did make a mistake. I do however like having fire at hand for exploring and setting things on fire when needed. If I was to do it again I would put ray of frost higher for sure. Aside from a few fights I don't find I *need* the secondary effect of bone chill, but I do appreciate it's usefulness.
I know people are a bit concerned with how paladins have rules to how they behave, but they are fair less severe in BG3 than in 5e and they really aren't that difficult to follow unless you are trying to min/max your way through the game. Devotion=Help people, show mercy Ancients=Help animals, show mercy Vengence=Help people, show no mercy Oathbreaker=laugh in future BBEGs voice
My problem when using paladins is that there are times where attacking neutral NPCs is what I want to do, and that breaks most oaths! Although knocking enemies out can get around that. I rarely break my oath from the wrong choice in dialogue thankfully.
I tend to not play Powerdin, because I'm limited in my in-world choices. I can't play as I want, without breaking my oath.
Yeah, Paladins are limited in that regard compared to all the other classes
wizard next plz
Sorry to say that wizard will be last since I am doing these in alphabetical order.
One day I'm going to play a paladin to level 12, but smite is SOOoo powerful I can't ever resist multiclassing to gain more spell slots. Maybe a 4 paladin party would be interesting challenge.
Yeah, what's stronger than a smite? More smites!! It's indicative of a wider problem that many martial classes don't get a lot of great stuff at the higher levels sadly.
I completely agree. Ancients and Vengeance are both S tier, amazing for multiclass and so diferent they just can't compete against each other. My favorite healer in the game is a heal itemized, ancients pally 6/ life cleric 6 multiclass. It's actually overkill, so most often I don't even use life cleric but other subclass with more offensive capabilities like light or tempest Disciple of light, blessed healer, preserve life, healing radiance, all in a DEX based pally to use the very good ranged Ensnaring Strike and ke able to always be in the middle of your party for those sweet AoE heals that also give resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage dealt by weapon attacks while equiping the very early acquired Hellrider's Pride.
That healing build sounds awesome! Being able to dish out damage with smites and also support the party when needed is great, plus the various healing spells/skills that use a bonus action make it so versatile.
I love to put it on karlack, and cast haste on her pretty much ensuring 4d6 healing per turn and never going mad
What happen after we kill him did he still show to the camp of you break the paladins again?
He will not come back!
Larian should give PC the console function to pick up a bunch of stuff at once. On console you can pick up everything a few feet around your character
I would love that, although I'm greedy and want the area to be larger than what we currently have on console/when using a controller!
Great to see you back! Awesome video!!!
Infinite Camp supplies(goodberry) are like the best, as a Sorcerer I'm always conserving my spell point but now each battle I can go apeshit lol
Hi I’m actually on this part and as much as I want to defend the grove I keep losing is there anyway to beat the grove and certain characters u need to?
i think you missed out on a couple of things regarding the 4 ele monk. I think the fangs of the fire snake ability is the bread and butter of the subclass. That ability is practically a punch with range. It procs unarmed strike of course but also procs extra attack AND gives a 1d4 fire dmg buff for the rest of the turn meaning at lvl 5 for example, you can initiate with fangs, then flurry which procs the 1d4 fire dmg on both hits, and then you still have extra attack available. The 1d4 fire dmg also applies if you throw weapons! Another interesting thing is that water whip's prone is the only prone i've seen (so far) that has infinite duration. This usually doesnt matter but remember that standing up costs 50% move spd so if you combo this with something like plant growth which QUARTERS move spd, the proned enemy will repeatedly skip their turn. Normally they would also recover when the "prone" debuff ends except water whip's prone is infinite meaning they skip turns until plant growth ends which turns water whip into a 10 turn stun! In my opinion 4E monk is way better than shadow monk at least until lvl 11 when they get shadowstrike. I think shadow monk especially early on is just a worse version of other things. Their silence isnt a ritual spell so you HAVE to spend the ki points. Darkvision is never worth the cost of casting it when half the races have it and scrolls and elixirs of darkvision exist. minor illusion is very very good BUT (again imo) only needed on 1 person in the party and you can just take it on gale and wyll (and EK lae'zel, AT astarion), cloak of shadows is not something i'd use in combat since invis potions exist and are bonus actions although to be fair it doesnt cost anything so it's nice for out of combat shenanigans. Darkness and pass without trace are fine and bonus action hide is great but that just seems like a worse rogue/gloomstalker ranger. Shadowstep is super cool and personally my main reason to even try shadow monk! I could be missing something or have just not built a good shadow monk but i dont see how shadow competes with 4E since shadow doesnt get any kind of dmg increase from the subclass until shadowstrike at lvl 11 and the utility is very lackluster as well since invis potions and darkness arrows exist and even for scouting just send in a gith's invisible mage hand or any kind of summon that you dont mind throwing away.